Brake Upgrade Information

Now I am sure that this will be an unpopular opinion BUT unless you are increasing the power output of the vehicle substantially I fail to see the point of upping the size of the brakes as your just going to out brake everyone else on the road and INCREASE the risk of being involved in an accident, even in a track environment I have yet to have the brakes on my mirage overheat/fade/feel inadequate in any way, admittedly I am doing mostly kahna or hillclimb events but all I have done is put some slotted rotors and a better quality pad to increase the coefficient of friction and have amazing stopping power even on a spirited drive on tight winding roads!

That said I have a set of rotors and calipers to go to 276mm on the front and keep the rear drums as they will have more than enough bite for the back of such a lightweight little vehicle and that way I don't have to play with the handbrake for the dirt tracks :D stomp the brakes and flick the rear around :D
 
Personally I have had my stock upgraded brakes fade and overheat (c63s tried to loose me...) another personal note which I believe isn't stressed enough is power isn't everything, and without the right handling and braking capabilities there is no point of going for power as you won't be able to control or stop the vehicle, rendering the car into a usless fwd skidpig (might be your cup of tea but not mine) on the other side of things if you don't add power but increase braking quality you will be able to "go faster" as you won't need as long of time to slow down and can slow down faster from a higher speed, this is the same with handling/suspension upgrades, you will be able to take corners at higher speeds etc.
 
Are people still upgrading front brakes on ce lancers? Can someone confirm that ch calipers will bolt on with the mini cooper 276mm rotors? Are the bolt holes the same size are the hose fittings the same?
 
to my knowledge, it was ts magna calipers and then the mini cooper rotors
Are people still upgrading front brakes on ce lancers? Can someone confirm that ch calipers will bolt on with the mini cooper 276mm rotors? Are the bolt holes the same size are the hose fittings the same?
 
I know that through the years I have had a few more than sketchy encounters, be it in the hills or on the longer tracks whereby there has been considerable brake fade to the point of it being properly dangerous. That being said, I have only ever run the standard solid rotors, and basic performance oriented pads.

Come the end of the year I will be throwing on the Galant vr4 twin pot/294mm rotors, and fto rear brake assembly. Is it overkill? Will it take some time to get used to? Without a doubt. But at the end of the day if it means I can stop the car regardless of temperatures and eventual power figures, then it's a no brainer IMO.
 
Are people still upgrading front brakes on ce lancers? Can someone confirm that ch calipers will bolt on with the mini cooper 276mm rotors? Are the bolt holes the same size are the hose fittings the same?
I have CH callipers (single piston) and mini rotors however I can floor the brake pedal and still not lock up the fronts in the dry so I am trying to work out what I need to adjust to fix this as its either upping the master cylinder size or increasing the "booster" power with a different vacuum/booster cylinder.

the reason people will use the Magna/FTO is that 2 smaller pistons won't affect the pedal as much as the 1 big one in the CH callipers....?!

edit: I also had to switch to the CH brake lines as they are identical with 1 very important exception! where they bolt into the calliper there is no little tab that helps hold it into position like on the standard CE lines.
 
I have CH callipers (single piston) and mini rotors however I can floor the brake pedal and still not lock up the fronts in the dry so I am trying to work out what I need to adjust to fix this as its either upping the master cylinder size or increasing the "booster" power with a different vacuum/booster cylinder.

the reason people will use the Magna/FTO is that 2 smaller pistons won't affect the pedal as much as the 1 big one in the CH callipers....?!

edit: I also had to switch to the CH brake lines as they are identical with 1 very important exception! where they bolt into the calliper there is no little tab that helps hold it into position like on the standard CE lines.
Are your brakes bled properly?

Have you used new discs/pads and are they bed in correctly?

Did you rebuild the calipers before installtion?
 
I have CH callipers (single piston) and mini rotors however I can floor the brake pedal and still not lock up the fronts in the dry so I am trying to work out what I need to adjust to fix this as its either upping the master cylinder size or increasing the "booster" power with a different vacuum/booster cylinder.

the reason people will use the Magna/FTO is that 2 smaller pistons won't affect the pedal as much as the 1 big one in the CH callipers....?!

edit: I also had to switch to the CH brake lines as they are identical with 1 very important exception! where they bolt into the calliper there is no little tab that helps hold it into position like on the standard CE lines.
Iv got a set of calipers from a tr or ts single pistons tho. The hose looks short and doesnt have the banjo bolt style fitting. Its more of a straight screw. Any idea what hose i might need
 
I got a set of calipers from a tr or ts single pistons tho. The hose looks short and doesn't have the banjo bolt style fitting. It's more of a straight screw. Any idea what hose I might need
If you got a pic of the back of the calliper I am not sure what they look like....... as I know the CH looks like the CE lines except the back of the calliper part as I said.



Are your brakes bled properly?

Have you used new discs/pads and are they bed in correctly?

Did you rebuild the calipers before installation?
Yes, about 4 times now.

Yes, I have even pulled them out and hit them with some sandpaper to "re-bed" them.

Yes, there are no signs of leaking.
 
If you got a pic of the back of the calliper I am not sure what they look like....... as I know the CH looks like the CE lines except the back of the calliper part as I said.




Yes, about 4 times now.

Yes, I have even pulled them out and hit them with some sandpaper to "re-bed" them.

Yes, there are no signs of leaking.

Just had to get through the “idiot checks”, its amazing how many people forget a step and can solve their issues real quick.

Do the brakes otherwise feel fine? Or are you getting a lot of pedal travel to make the car stop normally?

No one in the past has had an issue like this without a mechanical problem like a leak.

And i’m assuming youve heat cycled them a few times ect with no change?
 
Yea I have done all the first and second-stage things I can think of to diagnose the issue.
Rebuilt calipers, installed with old hoses but when bleeding checked for bulge (none), new pads and rotors, bed in as per instructions, re-bled brakes twice (full system flushes), sandpaper scuffed face of pads and rotors and re-bed, still no signs of a leak in the system unless it's in the master cylinder and I won't lie I don't want to crawl under the dash to remove it to find out haha but I am guessing that is my next step!
Just had to get through the “idiot checks”, its amazing how many people forget a step and can solve their issues real quick.

Do the brakes otherwise feel fine? Or are you getting a lot of pedal travel to make the car stop normally?

No one in the past has had an issue like this without a mechanical problem like a leak.

And i’m assuming youve heat cycled them a few times ect with no change?
 
Easy test for the master

Normal driving, pump the pedal rapidly and apply normal force on the 2nd or beyond pump.

Normal driving, push the pedal as normal, but also push it sideways with your foot ie towards the passengers or drivers door.

If in either or both of these situations you have a better brake response, your master is kaput.

It may not leak externally, but the seals inside may just be allowing the rod to pass over the chamber without applying pressure to the lines completely
 
Took a mintute to resize. I thort i had the hoses. But the thead on car end was different so now my baby is bleeding out on jacks and am waiting for local shop to make sokething up
 

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This was a long and eventful read! Lots of good info, so I figured I'd ask the brains trust if they knew if the 4x100 CG/CH drum assys/trailing arms were the same as the CE ones? If they're the same then hypothetically the proton upgrade at the rear should be bolt-on like with the mirages and CEs. Might be useful information to keep on the sticky if so.
 
This was a long and eventful read! Lots of good info, so I figured I'd ask the brains trust if they knew if the 4x100 CG/CH drum assys/trailing arms were the same as the CE ones? If they're the same then hypothetically the proton upgrade at the rear should be bolt-on like with the mirages and CEs. Might be useful information to keep on the sticky if so.

I dont think this is the correct conclusion to draw.

Drum part number for CE is different to CH as a start. Confirmed via DBA and MMC catalogs.

The CG/ch has wider track, and different rear trailing arm connections, so I think it’s safe to say the trailing arm is unique to the CH/CH.

For CG/CH people looking to retain 4x100 and upgrade the rear brakes, I’d first track down what other cars use the same rear drum PN and see if there’s “upgrades” for those cars. Just one avenue of many to explore on that weird pathway haha
 
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